Talk:Kal-El (Prime Earth)
H'el on Earth Here's a quick summary I put together for you to rewrite/cite as you see fit. Next story is '''Psi-War', which goes up to issue 24.'' Superman began testing his limits in Dr. Veritas' advanced research facility, though testing ceased after his limits exceeded the scope of the equipment. Clark returned to work at the Daily Planet but got fired after making a stand against the owner about the integrity of the paper. Upon leaving the building he discovered an enormous beast attacking Metropolis and flew into action. (Superman Issue 13) After defeating the beast, Kara arrived and angrily informed him that it was a prehistoric animal indigenous to Krypton called a Tripedal Curosiananiun. With her came H'el, a surviving student of Jor-El with intentions to preserve what remains of Krypton. To prove his sincerity he planned to snap the clone Superboy's neck which instantly provoked a fight. H'el revealed that he also considered Superman tainted by Earth, another abomination needing to be cleansed. (Issues 13 & 14) He barricaded himself in the Fortress of Solitude with plans to go back in time and prevent the destruction of Krypton, destroying Earth in the process. The Justice League arrived to meet Superman and Superboy and they departed together to stop H'el. The Star Chamber, using stolen technology fom Kandor, was activated and the process began. (Issue 15) Deep in space, the Oracle awakened to witness the possible destruction of Earth. Superman was instantly summoned into its presence and given a vision of Krypton. Superman then returned to the fight while Superboy and the Justice League delayed H'el's time ship. In the final remaining moments, Supergirl stabbed H'el in the chest with a Kryptonite shard. As he died, he fell into the rip in time. His body was later found by a young Jor-El on Krypton many years prior. (Issues 16 & 17) Wasoha (talk) 20:21, June 2, 2016 (UTC) :While this will probably be useful, I'm more looking to discuss which stories actually matter in the course of the character's development, rather than actually working on summaries. Then we'll know which stories actually NEED to be summarized. - Hatebunny (talk) 20:37, June 2, 2016 (UTC) ::Well you created the H'el on Earth section on the page so I'm just filling it in. In the absence of any other progress I'm just going to keep doing what I'm doing when I have the time. We can sit around and talk about getting work done for a year or we can actually get work done. I can't say what stories are worthwhile before reading them so I can't help there yet. By the time I've done a few of these it will be easier to pick and choose. For now I think the page just needs to make any sort of forward progress. Wasoha (talk) 20:50, June 2, 2016 (UTC) Superman Prime Earth content in the New Earth version I would move the page content for the newly created, but what I found? The new page with restricted editing only to administrators. There were editorial conflict here? I did not know that. --Agente Leite (talk) 16:38, June 3, 2016 (UTC) :No editorial conflict. It's just the current PE content on NE Supes page is horrible beyond saving. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 16:40, June 3, 2016 (UTC) ::I know that the content showed should have been here a long time ago. As I said, I would have moved the content, but you know... Now I saw that there was no editorial conflict, but do not get the protection from future editions. --Agente Leite (talk) 17:05, June 3, 2016 (UTC) :::It shouldn't be moved. It should be condensed and cleaned up, perhaps, if that is at all possible. See also this discussion. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 17:21, June 3, 2016 (UTC) ::::Ok. Thank you for the attention. --Agente Leite (talk) 18:46, June 3, 2016 (UTC) :::::Recent changes haven't helped matters as it appears that the Prime Earth Superman (along with his entire history) has been totally retconned out of existence. :::::: And I just hope that they will come ask to merge the two attires again. Killing the youngest version and putting the older version in place was a great move, merging the two characters being the youngest version died was a grandiose idiocy by DC Comics. Agente Leite (talk) 16:40, July 26, 2017 (UTC) Copy Edit The link to Lois Lane (Prime Earth) in the first paragraph of Superman and the Men of Steel has a typo. DrJohnnyDiablo (talk) 08:02, June 4, 2016 (UTC) :Yeah, someone should get on that. Who can help?GZilla311 (talk) 00:05, June 8, 2016 (UTC) ::I'm not seeing it. The link works fine. Maybe I'm not awake enough yet. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 11:37, June 8, 2016 (UTC) :::Kyle fixed it. DrJohnnyDiablo (talk) 12:24, June 8, 2016 (UTC) Is this Superman dead, and if so why isn't it written on his page? I have heard from multiple people reading his title, and I got the impression from reading DC Universe: Reirth #1, that the Prime Earth version of Superman is now deceased and that his place in the mainstream DCU from now on will be taken over by the pre-flashpoint version of the character. If this is the case, then shouldn't his issue of death be listed on the article? Ohdear15 (talk) 07:49, June 9, 2016 (UTC) :That's exactly what he meant, but unfortunately only administrators can edit this article is preventing other people can edit it. Note that is not categorized correctly and is not updated. --Agente Leite (talk) 21:31, June 23, 2016 (UTC) When that page will be unlocked so that others can update? When this page was created, this can be edited only by administrators. Just take a look at the history. When this page will be made available so that another can update? --Agente Leite (talk) 15:57, July 16, 2016 (UTC) :I second the notion. its been a while since this page has been updated and no one seems to be interested in finishing it. Can somebody unlock the page now?--Loki 71 (talk) 17:13, September 3, 2016 (UTC) ::And I think they do not care about it and just see the date of my last post here and answer me: "Any manager answered my question" The answer is no". I got talking to one of them and got no answer. Comparing this with the Marvel Wiki, this one wins rout in the category clutter. Remember that for almost five years, the page Superman Pre-Flashpoint was edited as if the Prime-Earth Superman as if they were the same person and only now they noticed the mistake because of Convergence and still talking about errors, they also put the name Clark Kent as alias (which is totally wrong), not as real name and I have corrected this error, but reversed as if I had committed vandalism. --Agente Leite (talk) 16:31, September 4, 2016 (UTC) :::As I've mentioned in numerous places, the page is locked to protect it from attempts to merge the badly written mess on Kal-El (New Earth) with this page's history. The idea is that this page should be readable and informative. Play-by-plays of every story ever, with far too much detail, is not the way to do that. In order to avoid that, I recommended that we, as a community, work on building a timeline of Superman's Prime Earth stories (when they take place in relation to others, important flashbacks, and so on). And a general list of storylines that are important to the character's development. (Simple stories that don't add anything to the character should get less text on the page than one that removes his powers or kills off a character, right?). I have previously suggested that this list/timeline be created on THIS VERY PAGE! :::I've had only one offer of help in this, and that help never came. Building a timeline/list of important stories is very important in making sure the page reads in a logical and informative way. It serves as an outline that makes writing the page history go much more easily. If you'd like to help with that, please volunteer. - Hatebunny (talk) 16:45, September 13, 2016 (UTC) I would like to help, but I'm not informed, but help make small edits and looking for more on the subject on the Internet. As you can see, the page is incomplete, missing the events as Truth, Last days of Superman and some of the character's legacy. --Agente Leite (talk) 17:57, September 13, 2016 (UTC) There's one thing I'm noticing... I'm guessing there's a second intention as to why the page is being editable for administrators only. I swallowed a nice pretext that is to avoid an unauthorized merger, but so far the page has not been released for future updates and the administrators themselves do not update this page for months! As I always speak and no one listens: this site should have rules for joining the organization, but where are these rules? I'm sorry for the hype, but there are lots of pages like this and this one that are in the same problem and never solved. --Agente Leite (talk) 15:27, December 12, 2016 (UTC) : In regards to the Damian Wayne and Bleez problems you mentioned, we decided that the best course of action at the time was to avoid making Prime Earth pages for them because the changes to their histories were so minuscule it didn't seem necessary. Though I, as another admin, disagree with that, the consensus was what we have right now and I respect that. : As for locking Supes' page, that's just a traffic problem. Characters that generate the most traffic remain locked to avoid vandalism, editing conflicts / wars, and just people screwing around with it in general. That's not to say that anybody who isn't an admin will mess the page up, it's just that, as a high traffic page, it is more vulnerable to these types of problems that we'd just rather avoid having to clean up. --- Haroldrocks talk 18:25, December 12, 2016 (UTC) ::Oh, I'm not the only admin who didn't like that? --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 18:38, December 12, 2016 (UTC) :::You are not the only one. Kyletheobald (talk) 19:13, December 12, 2016 (UTC) :::: Oh, I thought I'' was the only one. Yeah, can we do something about that...?--- Haroldrocks talk 19:20, December 12, 2016 (UTC) ::The problem is simply in the update because, blocked, nobody, besides the administrators can edit the page, even if it is to correct small errors. Note that the topic Truth is empty and does not even have the topic Legacy that should tell what happened after the death of this version of Superman and remembering that in the template, the name Clark Kent is in the wrong entry because it is the name that the adoptive parents gave the he. --Agente Leite (talk) 14:54, December 13, 2016 (UTC) :::There are a couple of noteworthy issues. 1. If there are small errors, they can be noted here so the admins can properly fix them. 2. The Truth section and Savage Dawn are missing, yes, but there is currently no editor capable of properly filling the gaps. 3. I'm not sure about a "Legacy" section. The character is dead, that is where his history ends. 4. Furthermore, I see the need to keep this page blocked in light of the recent events developed in Action Comics, where apparently Prime Earth Clark Kent and Prime Earth Superman are two separate beings; meaning that this page should be splitted and heavily modified. In order to prevent further confusion to the mess DC has already created, the best route is to keep this page protected until more and clear information is provided; and a capable editor comes along. - S.S. (talk) 16:16, December 13, 2016 (UTC) It should be mentioned that makes no mention of the Prime Earth Superman and instead relates a New Earth like continuity for Superman that seems to have taken place in the Prime Earth continuity.--BruceGrubb (talk) 01:50, May 22, 2017 (UTC) New 52 Characters category Please add it, as I cannot :) Completion Should someone chronicle the remainder of Red's history? DCLover1995 (talk) 19:27, June 12, 2017 (UTC) :Yes? --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']][[Message wall:Tupka217|''217]] 19:29, June 12, 2017 (UTC) And there we go to confuse everyone again! I had said some time ago about this confusion and from what I saw, no one cared what I said. They will again confuse the articles, now involving the two versions of Lois Lane and even renamed the Jon Kent page to Earth Prime, as if the boy had been born there. Now they're going to tell me that the two versions of Superman and Lois Lane have been merged and I know that's true, but there's no reason to do it in the articles of Prime Earth versions and sooner or later people will come up proposing to merge the articles again. Now just one question: because in this template does not have the "Status" entry to show readers that Superman and Lois Lane's Prime Earth versions have been merged with Pre-Flashpoint equivalents. Please, let's not make the same mistakes we made in the past and correct those who have posted, for example, the name Clark Kent as alias. Still coming back talk about errors, it seems that this page belongs to the administrators because it is months blocked and so far it has not been released for publishers who do not have the status to edit. Oh! Did not they use the word merge as a pretext to justify the blocking of this page, and is it being updated as if it were the New Earth version? --Agente Leite (talk) 15:26, October 25, 2017 (UTC) :It's a confusing situation. This is meant to unconfuse it. For all intents and purposes, this new merged Superman is and, by retcon, has always been, the Prime Earth Superman. Using the New Earth pages for that would be just as confusing. :If you're concerned over calling Jon a Prime Earth character because he isn't born there, well, he wasn't born on New Earth either. Because those weren't New Earth characters; they were time duplicates from Convergence. :As for the rest, I'm sorry, I can't form that into coherent English sentences. Please calm down and try again. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 15:48, October 25, 2017 (UTC) ::If we're going to do this, then this article needs a major overhaul. Most of Superman's notable New 52 history was erased, including all of his origin, as we've seen with DC making a point of showing us an abridged version of his entire background. The merged Superman might be the Prime Earth Superman, but he has much more in common with Post-Crisis Superman than New 52 Superman in background, history and character. I'd even argue he actually is, for all intents and purposes, New Earth Superman inserted into a new universe and with some of the PE version absorbed, but oh well. This is going to take a lot of work to become accurate. - Ver-mont (talk) 01:34, October 26, 2017 (UTC) :::Just because DC retconned New 52, it doesn't mean the information should be removed from the article. That was the history of the Prime Earth Superman, after all. The best solution is to make a continuity template à la SOS and insert it under the Rebirth header. Any alteration to Superman's "history" can be included after such banner. Bottom line, it's DC's fault for making Superman an even bigger mess. We just try to make sense of their nonsene. - S.S. (talk) 01:45, October 26, 2017 (UTC) ::::It just occurred to me. Doesn't Supes subconsciously identify himself more strongly as his Pre-Flashpoint half? DCLover1995 (talk) 23:01, October 27, 2017 (UTC) :::::His history certainly pulls more from Hew Earth then Prime Earth history. I might add that Convergence (Event) throws yet another spanner into the works as are part of the New Earth Superman's history and clearly show him and his family leaving for Crisis. It would help a great deal if DC could keep its hands off the freaking hard or soft reboot button. I fear that if the DCU regains its lost 10 years we are going to be back here again in an effort to straighten out the new mess. Oh and Parallax Hal is still out there somewhere and could go Zero Hour...again. Which reminds me...we have a New Earth and Prime Earth Parallax running around.--BruceGrubb (talk) 19:03, November 2, 2017 (UTC) :::::: Honestly, I believe that Superman identifies himself more as his pre-''Flashpoint'' version. Do we have any confirmation that the complete Superman is the Prime Earth version or not? Given how things work in the DC Multiverse, there is really no flawless way to go about doing this. Leader Vladimir (talk) 20:40, November 6, 2017 (UTC) :::::::It's mainly for practical purposes. The new merged version is the Superman on Prime Earth, and has retroactively always been the Superman of Prime Earth. It's a mess that can't be solved with our naming system. Or without it. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 20:42, November 6, 2017 (UTC) ::::::::Wouldn't it be better to create a new page for the Reborn Superman? Or will the Prime Earth Superman page have an Origins subsection added in under the Rebirth section. While we now indeed have the true Prime Earth Superman, his origins don't fully line up with either Prime Earth's or New Earth's. The mess is fixable by making a new page for this new amalgam Superman, such as "Superman (Post-Reborn)". It's just a suggestion, and I know you guys are trying to keep some order here, but it might avoid a lot of confusion for readers. Andrew McKenzie (talk) 02:44, November 9, 2017 (UTC) Parallax Where does the reference to him being Parallax occur? Kyletheobald (talk) 10:01, November 2, 2017 (UTC) : In issues 29 and 30 of the 4th volume of the Superman series, Superman was host to Parallax. The events of this 2 part story was continued in issues 30 and 31 of the Hal Jordan and the Green Lantern Corps series. DalekSupreme13 (talk) 06:36, November 3, 2017 (UTC) ::I knew about the HJ&GLC issues but assumed that was Hector Hammond's illusion. I wasn't aware of the issues in Superman. Kyletheobald (talk) 09:46, November 3, 2017 (UTC) New Main Image Probably a little early for this, but what do we think about using Jim Lee's textless Action Comics #1000 cover as the new main image after the issue is published? https://www.dccomics.com/comics/action-comics-2016/action-comics-1000 DrJohnnyDiablo (talk) 08:59, March 18, 2018 (UTC) :It's indeed early. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 10:49, March 18, 2018 (UTC) ::I think it should be the Superman #1 textless cover. The AC1000 cover makes Superman's costume look purple-ish. --SuperFan95 (talk) 16:41, July 16, 2018 (UTC) :::What's wrong with the current? --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 16:57, July 16, 2018 (UTC) ::::Well, that's just it. It's not current. Just saying, we should be as accurate as possible. --SuperFan95 (talk) 17:33, July 16, 2018 (UTC) :::::It's the main image, not the "current image". It should be the character as he was most recognizable for most of his appearances, not (necessarily) what he looks like at the moment. While the one we use now may not be the best, he was still no-shorts for longer than red-shorts. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 17:52, July 16, 2018 (UTC) Superman Vol 5 1 Textless It's without any doubt the best image to put on this page. I mean, it's so obvious, why didn't you change it already.Civil Warrior (talk) 21:59, July 27, 2018 (UTC) :I don't know where you're getting this. "Without any doubt", "it's so obvious"? Sorry, it isn't. This suggestion is an extreme closeup with a non-standard uniform. I'm open to change, but it has to be something better. Without the shorts. Like it or not, that's what sets PE Supes apart from other Supeses, even though he's gone back to wearing one. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 18:00, July 29, 2018 (UTC) First Appearance While indeed his first "appearance" was Flashpoint #5 with the rest of the league, it was a vision, not a true appearance, his first full appearance was Justice League Vol 2 1.Civil Warrior (talk) 22:01, July 27, 2018 (UTC) :We count that as an appearance. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 18:00, July 29, 2018 (UTC) Action Comics Vol 1 976 Variant Textless I think it would be a better main image for him. Better art and more focus on him, not the scenario.Civil Warrior (talk) 21:11, August 11, 2018 (UTC) :The image is, in itself, good. I'm not entirely sure on the quality - it looks a bit fuzzy? Also, I like Gary Frank as much as anyone, but I don't think he's done a lot of New 52 Superman work. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 21:55, August 11, 2018 (UTC) ::Patrick Gleason has done 0 New 52 Superman work. And I can't see difference on the quality of the image with the other covers.Civil Warrior (talk) 22:12, August 11, 2018 (UTC) :::Then I'm okay with a change. Anyone else? --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 08:28, August 12, 2018 (UTC) Not current Superman Do you really think we should consider current Superman the Prime Earth one? The current one is 99% Kal-El (New Earth) and almost nothing from the Prime Earth.Civil Warrior (talk) 00:52, August 12, 2018 (UTC) :We've had this discussion. Short version: thanks to Mxy, this merged-but-mostly-NE Superman is the one that's real on PE, with most or all his history replacing the earlier stuff. --[[User:Tupka217|'Tupka']]''217'' 08:28, August 12, 2018 (UTC) Marital Status Are Lois and Clark separated? --SuperFan95 (talk) 22:04, October 25, 2018 (UTC) No, Doomsday Clock shows they are just fine :) ShinySephiroth (talk) 22:54, December 23, 2018 (UTC) Action Comics 1000 Textless File:Action Comics Vol 1 1000 Textless.jpg The Infobox image is outdated and needs a change. Since , Superman has undergone a costume change and went back to wearing the red trunks. The current image still uses his defunct New 52 outfit. DarkKnight' ' 23:53, December 19, 2018 (UTC) :If you read the "New Main Image" and "Superman Vol 5 1 Textless" sections, you would see that User:Tupka217 has said no to that image because this wiki prefers the most recognizable image and alias, rather than their current look and alias. --MysteryScooby (talk) 16:46, December 20, 2018 (UTC) :: That discussion was from half a year ago, and this is Superman's most recognisable look. Ask any child to draw a picture of Superman, and they will draw the blue-and-red tights with trunks. :: And to top it all off, Superman's character has been more-or-less merged with his New Earth counterpart, he was given his classic (and most iconic) costume back in honour of his 80th anniversary, and nearly nine months later, he shows no signs of reverting back to his New 52 outfit (which he only wore for less than two years after his history was merged with the pre-New 52 character). I see no reason not to update the image. DarkKnight' ' 01:38, December 20, 2018 (UTC) I believe there should be a change for the pages - post-New 52 Superman merging with New Earth Superman (Superman Reborn) should be its own page, since Sideways #9 and Sideways Annual show that New 52 Superman is still operating independently of New Earth Superman. So I believe it should have this page as it is, but anything after Superman Reborn should be Superman II (Prime Earth). 1) Superman (Prime Earth) is New 52 Superman, including his appearances in Superman Reborn and Sideways. 2) Superman (New Earth) or Superdad. 3) Superman II (Prime Earth) would be the current Superman who has both the essence of New Earth and Prime Earth Superman. ShinySephiroth (talk) 22:53, December 23, 2018 (UTC) This page has been locked for far too long. It's years out of date. This page needs to be unlocked right now! It's years out of date, and missing important details. I see no reason to keep the editing restricted to admins indefinitely. Here's a couple reasons why: 1. It prevents people from completing the incomplete sections, of which there are many. Also, as others have said, Hard Truth and The Last Days Of Superman are missing, and those came out 3-4 years ago. 2. If there are any typos, they can't be fixed by users, so the page will start to degrade over time if the typos aren't reported to the admins. So please, at least let some registered users (those who are known to make good edits on other pages) edit this page, even if the edits have to go through a mod/admin queue; it shouldn't be restricted to admins. Otherwise, it's never going to see any updates at all. Stargate38 01:14, February 4, 2019 (UTC) The page can be updated with the proper information. I've been reading Superman comics since the Rebirth era and I can update the biography section. Leader Vladimir (talk) 22:12, August 11, 2019 (UTC) Infobox Image Okay, is there any reason we shouldn't update the infobox image at this point? Nobody responded to the last image discussion and very valid points were raised. It's been over a year now, and quite frankly the argument "The New 52 costume sets him apart" doesn't really work anymore: * The classic costume is more recognisable in general * It was brought back for his 80th anniversary and it is almost certainly here to stay at this point * The "New 52" Superman is definitely gone. They merged his character and history with the classic Superman... And then The New 52 costume lasted less than two years. Unless we are creating a new page for the current hybrid Superman, I see no reason not to update the image. DarkKnight' ' 02:00, April 6, 2019 (UTC)